The State Versus the Church on Sexual Health
In 1995, Alberto Fujimori, the former president of Peru, promoted birth control by actualizing a national family planning program as part of his agenda to decrease population growth and therefore poverty. The program involved universal access to reproductive healthcare and sex education in schools. Proponents reasoned that the program would lead to decreased maternal mortality rates and empower women, especially rural women who would gain the ability to make choices about their reproductive health.
We’re now seeing a similar phenomenon happen in the Philippines where there is currently intense debate over the Reproductive Health bills (“RH bill”) that has many of the exact same provisions as those of Fujimori’s program in 1995. This time, the Catholic Church is sure that promoting birth control, or what they refer to as “abortion-inducing drugs,” will increase rates of abortion, which is illegal there.
In countries where the Catholic Church plays an important role, should the Church also have a say in reproductive health and sex education? Should everyone in the world have equal access to birth control? Why or why not?
Tags: birth control peru, fujimori family planning program, health, philippines rh bill, reproductive healthcare peru, sex education peru
Leona Martin
Such a tough topic to discuss/debate…its right along there with religion and politics. I can see both sides of the story, but don't have to agree. Now I know China has a policy on birth after the 1st child, now how they control that I do not know, but it seems to work in that country (Of course we really don't know for sure). I'll leave it at that.
Samantha Bangayan
So true, Leona! Truth be told, I've always been one to shy away from major debates like these. =P Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I especially identify with how you note that we don't really know for sure what works — in China or elsewhere!
Dayle Fraschilla
I’m not 100% certain how everything is done in China, but I was talking to the mom of one of my daughter’s classmates — she moved to the US from China partly because she wants more children. She said something about being fined if you have more that one child there. I’ve been wanting to do some research on that, but I haven’t yet.
Samantha Bangayan
I’ve heard about that law too, Dayle! I have many friends who are in single-child families because of it and I wonder if it’s still going strong. I’ve heard of families who have had their second or third child physically taken away by government officials. =(
jyoti mishra
thought provoking !!!
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Keith Davis
Big big topic.
Easy to see both sides but "…based on abstinence and sexual morality." is not an easy path for most people to follow.
Perhaps the more common sense way of "… universal access to reproductive healthcare and sex education in schools." is the more pragmatic way.
Like I said, big big topic.
Enjoyed the read.
Samantha Bangayan
Keith, thank you so much for reaching out and leaving a comment! =) I just glanced at your blog and can't wait to peruse it further! I just know I'm going to learn tons from you because public speaking is definitely not my forte. =P
I was totally surprised about what Cipriani was distributing to schools too! It almost calls for rebellion. =P Thanks for your thoughts, friend!
Jeanine Byers Hoag
Wow, what an interesting topic! And such respectful comments, so far. You might be aware that this is hot debate here in America, as well, and it is divisive. I believe in a "both/and" approach.
Make reproductive health care available at the same time that the church makes its message heard. It's like what a teacher in my high school used to say, "be good, but if you can't be good, be careful!" 🙂
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Samantha Bangayan
Ooh! I know what you mean, Jeanine! Everyone has been relatively neutral and non-argumentative! =)
I love how you mesh the two sides, Jeanine. You would be a fabulous politician! I always like to strive for balance, but didn't know how in this situation. Your comment really clarified things for me. =) And loved that quote from your high school teacher! =) Haha!
Heather
Hi Samantha, what a great debate!
I'm commenting here because I loved your interesting comment, Jeanine: "Be good but if you can't be good, be careful." I think as a mom of 2 girls I want them to be careful, and I would of course, prefer they abstain from sex, but if they're going to do it, I want to know they're protected.
My husband's dad has joked with him growing up, "what do you call people who use the rhythm method? Parents."
As a woman who has planned to have 2 kids and got surprised by a 3rd I know first hand how unpredictable the rhythm method can be, even when I supposedly knew what I was doing. 🙂 Lucky for me my surprise was a welcome one and my son was born into a happy family with 2 parents.
I personally believe that sex education is important for all kids and a choice to use birth control to prevent pregnancy and disease should be available to those who decide not to abstain.
My 2 cents. 🙂
Thanks Samantha and Jeanine!
Heather
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Samantha Bangayan
Jeanine was really clever about that comment eh? =) Love it!
What an interesting take to think about the personal repercussions for the people in our family! I absolutely love your father-in-law's joke about the rhythm method, but it's so true that I would prefer that my future children have the option of being protected!
Thanks so much for your input as a caring (and experienced) mother, Heather! =) Loved your two cents!
Marco Silva
Hi Samantha,
Amazing post… refections, and more reflections… well in my opinion, definitely state should be separated from religion. Religion is a far to great issue to talk about
Regarding sexual education, it should be promoted in schools, not ever being separated from affective education. I was a teacher for 10 years and from my experience I can say that kids need both sexual and affective education. Then I think that all human being should be respected in his/her sexual choice…
Samantha Bangayan
So true, Marco! I have a hard enough time understanding and sifting through all the religions myself.
And I am thoroughly amazed by your idea of meshing sexual and affective education. Thank you so much for pointing that out! =) It's about personal relationships too.
Thank you so much for your insight, Marco!! =)
Vinny T
Very difficult issues here. I'd opt for giving the Church the right to minister to its "flock."
On the issue of birth control for the masses, education is as far as I'd go. No forced sterilizations or indiscriminate distribution of intauterine devices.Regrettably, the proponents of birth control in Thirld world countries often have a hidden agenda: limit the population before it becomes subversive. The real problem in Peru is poverty, not overpopulation. I think Humalla understands this better than all of his recent serious opponents for the Presidency, and hope that he might bring some salvation to Peru's too often forgotten poor.
Samantha Bangayan
Ooh! Thanks for bringing up the forced sterilizations, Vinny. That was something I didn't want to touch on in this post because it would have turned into an essay. Originally, I wanted to bring up the question about whether or not something similar could happen in the Philippines. If the Filipino government is citing the same purposes (decreasing population growth, decreasing poverty), then there could very well be a similar kind of enforcement happening without people noticing.
I'm so curious about how Ollanta is going to do as president!! I hope he fulfills his promises, especially for all the rural folk who were on his side.
Thanks so much for your comment, Vinny!!
vinny T
I'm rooting for Humalla because I think that he really cares about Peru and its poor, and that his statements aren't just vacuous lip service.I'm sure that he'll be up against ferocious opposition for anything that he proposes that might be the least bit threateniing to US interests and those of their allies.The sad part about Peru is that many of the elites absolutely hate the indigenous poor and don't want to have anthing to do with them.Just walk into the middle and upper class home of a Peruvian and most likely you won't find anything, and I mean anything related to the indigenous population,[such as craft items or indigenous music,] except for the maids. of course!!!
Samantha Bangayan
Ooh! That's what everyone was pointing out — that he's against the free market and foreign influence. People were joking that he was going to kick me out of the country. =P
I've heard about there being this huge chasm between the upper and lower class. I don't know many upper class families, but those I do know are very appreciative of the indigenous culture. =)
Samantha Bangayan
Ah! So, that's the solution! That makes so much more sense, Roy. When the State and Church are intertwined, religion may be enforced upon everyone in the country, whether the population likes it or not. That's exactly what happens. Eek!
Samantha Bangayan
Love your take on this, Martha! And I *knew* I could count on you to lighten the place up! =) Thank you! I take the liberal stance as well! =)
RobertaBudvietas
The Catholic Church has many things to answer for over the years. It is sad that often the politics of the church creates better politicians than politics so.
That said, the reason for a policy may be right at the time and place but the long term consequences of MAN made decisions will always empower some and disempower others. It is about power and control. This is a HUGE topic and affects many areas of the world. We keep treating and dealing with symptoms and never begin to address the problem
Samantha Bangayan
That's so true, Roberta. Some events that have caused distrust in the Catholic Church can come into play with debates like these. You also bring up a really good point about how power is underlying this issue and how we treat the symptoms. How tough it is to make positive changes for the world, or even our countries, when power comes into play.
Sherry Zander
This is a very tough subject. The church (Catholic and other denominations) always has the option to educate their flocks on birth control; however, I do not believe that the church should have the authority to lawfully dictate to the public what they can or cannot do regarding birth control. I am not sure how I feel about a forced birth control agenda in a society or geographic area that is overpopulated or impoverished. I definitely agree with Vinny T., though, in regards to certain limitations of a birth control agenda.
Samantha Bangayan
Great way to put it, Sherry! The church ministers to its flock, but that doesn't necessarily give it the right to impose their teachings on those outside of the flock.
The scary thing about implementing family planning programs, as Vinny mentioned, is the possibility of forced birth control. =( It's what happened in Peru — indigenous women were coerced into sterilization. =(
Sherry Zander
Yeah, I definitely would have to agree with Vinny — that's inhumane in my opinion. I could agree with birth control in the form of pills, which is the method I think most Americans equate with birth control. Forced sterilization is unthinkable.
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Samantha Bangayan
Inhuman indeed. That's why that president, Fujimori, is in prison right now!
Lynn
I would rather see more education in our churches and schools so we can start making more edcuated decisions. Thats really all I want to say because I really could go on and on about this topic.
Thanks Samantha for sharing.
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Samantha Bangayan
I love the way you sum it up so concisely, Lynn! Independent decisions based on solid education. =) Thanks so much for your wisdom, friend! =)
bornstoryteller
Hi Samantha: The following are my feeling/opinions. I do feel that a LOT of religious institutions hold onto archaic rituals/mandates that were important for when they were put into place. In this case, when people were dying at a very early age (many women in childbirth) and to keep numbers flowing. In many locations now (and yes I know, not all), early death is not the norm like it was. We have the "need" to repopulate, but not at the numbers needed way back…but, that mentality still exists
I also don't think it's the state's business.
It DOES need an educational "here are health issue related" organizations that work for the good of the people, that should be supported by church and state, so that people live healthfully, not in fear, not in control of populations (sterilization), not for an agenda that does not serve the people.
Samantha Bangayan
Interesting! That could definitely be an explanation for foundation of the church's focus on sex solely for procreation. We needed those children back then, but now the issue is overpopulation!
What a cool idea to have _outside_ organizations jump in! =) If we can get these kinds of organizations to reach out at a national level, there's a lot of promise in their outreach! =) Very cool idea! =)
Oliver Tausend
Hi Samantha,
you are touching a hot iron. The Catholic church should have as much say as any other non-political institution. Are they democratically elected ? No. So that's the answer.
Of course, they can have their opinion, and that's OK, because everybody is free what they want to believe or not. They only have as much power as people grant them.
Thanks for starting this interesting discussion.
Take care
Oliver
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Samantha Bangayan
You make it so clear, Oliver! Everyone is entitled to an opinion, including the Church, but the people who should make the choices are the ones who have been chosen to. =) Love how you put it! =)
Lou Barba
Hi Samantha,
I am a Christian, not a catholic or a protestant, but I have been persuaded that the church, or the Family of God is what's the dominant and deciding force on earth, and that governments come to it for power and approval. (How supernatural of me!) I don't want to talk about birth control (talked out on that one) but I do think governments should take the church's lead on moral matters. Thanks for providing a question that is so important.
Lou Barba
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Samantha Bangayan
Ooh! You bring up a really good point, Lou! When it comes to talking about morality, the government is not necessarily where we should turn to! Thanks for providing your valuable input to this, Lou. I loved learning a bit more about your values here too. =)
Adrienne
Now this is a hot topic indeed and you've definitely received some very powerful comments so far. As for me, this is one of those touchy subjects. Like Leona said, this is one that falls around both politics and religion. Two subjects I don't care to get into a debate about.
What I will say is that if you are a very religious person and believe in your faith wholeheartedly then you should adhere to what is right or wrong through their teachings. As far as the state goes, I believe that whatever policies they have in place of course should be adhered to as well. Doesn't necessarily mean we have to agree to them but when it's the law, it's the law.
Can we all just come together for once? Wouldn't that be amazing. But with all the different religious beliefs, I just don't see that happening.
Thanks for bringing this topic to our attention Samantha. You do share some interesting subjects with us for sure. Never a dull moment over here. You get our brains going full steam ahead.
Adrienne
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Samantha Bangayan
Adrienne, my heart went out to your call for unity! That would be so beautiful if we could all just agree and be together. =)
I do like how you catered to everyone in your response — abide by the laws of your country while you have the freedom to believe in your faith. Apart from how you point out that we may not agree with laws, another tricky part is when the laws and your faith clash.
I'm really not one to debate either, but I thought it would be a valuable conversation. Indeed, it *has* turned into a beautiful conversation of our values and our world. No bites or scratches yet! =)
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts too, Adrienne! =) I'm so glad that you find my posts interesting! =) Hugs!
Diana Simon
Hi Sam,
In Italy the influences of the Church is felt everywhere. To some extent they have been successful but thankfully, people are able to make their own decision as to how to live their lives. In Italy, abortion is legal up to the third month of pregnancy. I guess this is a huge win as the Vatican is right here!
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Samantha Bangayan
Wow! I never thought about what things might be like with the Church at its core in Italy! It's really good to hear that people still have democratic rights there. How interesting and absolutely amazing that abortion is legal there, even if only in the first trimester! Thanks for teaching me a thing or two, Diana! =)
Bruce W. Darby
Samantha,
What a hornet's nest this could become. 🙂 While I personally believe in education & contraception in a pre-conception state, I also believe that once conception has occurred a human being has begun it's journey through life. I believe that to end that growth with an abortion is akin to murder, and should be punished as such. I also think that if someone chooses to end the life of a fetus, that it is not my call to judge, for I am only human. We must all answer to a higher power some day, and I'm sure that we all will be shocked to learn the answers to all of these things. 🙂
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Samantha Bangayan
The funny thing, Bruce, is that this hasn't become a hornet's nest at all! =) Everyone has been so kind and non-argumentative in their comments. =)
I loved how you framed your argument and how you ended with humility, Bruce. =) It really has me thinking whether or not governments should be able to make these types of judgments for the entire country!
How beautiful to imagine that we'll "learn the answers" one day. =) In the meantime, I'm satisfied living in the beautiful mystery of it all. =) Hugs! Thanks for such a valuable comment!
Janet Callaway
Samantha, aloha. Very interesting topic. While the Church certainly should be able to put its message forward just as any politician would state his/her position, I don't believe the Church should have control over people's lives–especially people who are non-believers of that faith.
Samantha, why would I want to give up control of my life, my body to someone else? The Church is not going to pay my bills or take care of my family. Why should it have the power to decide what I can or can't do?
Having been raised in a Catholic family and attended a private Catholic all girls' school through high school, to say that the Church's idea of sex education is lacking would be an understatement.
Sex education is as vital as any form of education. Does it make sense to be educated on history, math and whatever yet have little to no knowledge of sex education? How foolish is that?
For most people, the sexual component of a relationship is integral to a happy and satisfying relationship. In my opinion, the Church's "rulings" cause countless unhappy marriages, families and much confusion.
Obviously, Sam, I could continue on this rant for a while. Let people decide for themselves; it's their lives. How horrible it is to have knowledge yourself and to deny it for others.
Congratulations on your topic, Sam. You definitely stirred the pot. Aloha. Janet
Samantha Bangayan
Yes! It doesn't seem to make sense at all that the Church would have the power to make decisions for others who aren't followers. You bring up some really strong rhetoric questions to underline your thoughts, Janet.
I wholeheartedly agree that if we have knowledge, it should be shared. My friend, Marco, brought up a good point about how sex education should always be tied with affective education. In that sense, these are life skills, not only for a relationship with a partner, but for every person you interact with!
Thank you so much for sharing your opinions on this one, Janet! I was really nervous about how people would respond to my "stirring of the pot," but this conversation has developed quite nicely! =)
Paula Lee Bright
I'm afraid that I'm woefully uneducated about these issues outside of the U.S.
I'm a liberal politically, so I don't feel that any church should be dictating to the people of any country. That said, I know that it does happen in many parts of the world. It's a reality.
I'm glad that I don't have to live with those restrictions, however. Children and birth control for me is up to the people who will be raising the child.
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Samantha Bangayan
Paula, I hear you on that one because I feel like I'm drastically uneducated about these topics as a whole. This is why I'm so glad I can post it on my blog and get into a great discussion about it with everyone! This has truly been an enlightening experience! =)
Thank you for *your* input as well! If I were more political, I would probably identify with being liberal as well. It's why it's so interesting living out the more conservative aspects of this society in Peru. =)
Abe
You will find that it isn't only the Cathlic Church that takes a stand on the use of controceptives but most Christian based faiths excerise the perfered method of controll through abstanance. Not always a easy thing to do considering we are all subject to temptation.
As a member of the Church of Jusus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I have been tought to live within our means. I believe that the Glory of God is intellagance and that if that is true then responablily using controcepts would be a smart thing to do. Why would any Chruch (Faith) believe it to be a sin to live our life in a responsable way????? I feel it is a sin for the Church to act irreponsable by failing to recognize the full impact to a childs life when born into poverty.
Samantha Bangayan
I had no idea, Abe! It's true that temptation is a tough one! With such a natural human urge, it's no wonder that there has been such strong opposition and debate over this issue.
I really like your reasoning here, Abe. We can definitely reframe it as a form of responsibility!
Abe
To empower a woman to choose responsably not to concieve should be the rightous descission made between her and God where the Church is concerned. If the State can assist with this matter in a responsable way why should it matter to the Church. I will say this. It is through the SEPERATION of Church and State that idealigies change and Moral Values change in the minds of our youth. And it is our youth within the world that are escalating this issue to a whole new level. All the more reason for the right desicion to be made regarding sexual maturity.
Samantha Bangayan
Wow! It sounds like you really have your opinions well formed on this, Abe. It has been truly enlightening reading through your two comments. I like how you mention "sexual maturity," because I definitely consider it positive when youth seek out birth control — it means that they're thinking about consequences and about the future. To me, that's something to be admired!
Thank you so much for your detailed thoughts on this, Abe! =)
Deeone
I have never thought the mixture of Church and State was the greatest idea. I think that everyone should have the right to do whatever it is they would like to do to their own bodies. What gives people the right to take control of someone else? It really sickens me that Man (human beings) has such control issues! If an individual has views about abortion, equality rights, birth control, what have you; they are entitled to their rights but it's selfish of them to push their agendas onto others and tell them that their way is the only way.
.
Samantha Bangayan
Hmm! Interesting! When I think about it that way, it's weird that the Church can say, "no you cannot control what happens to your body." Love your reasoning with this one, Deeone. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! =)
Dr. Bob Clarke
Hey Sam… from the looks of the comment number, your post has struck a nerve! Indeed, this is a very polarizing subject.
There is not much room for middle ground here, because people have such strong opinions when it comes to church and state.
As for my opinion, I'll put it this way. I believe in every person's right to choose and feel there is no place for any religion in politics. But in reality, there will always be crossover so it must be dealt with on an individual basis.
This will likely be a discussion that our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will continue to debate for years and years to come.
Great point for discussion, though.
Samantha Bangayan
Definitely, Bob! I'm actually pleasantly surprised that no fights have broken out. =P It's been pleasant conversation since the beginning! =)
Ooh! Great point! It always ends up being the individual's decision. The State and Church can make their arguments, but it's up to the people to decide.
Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom here, Bob! =)
charlie nitric
Hello Samantha –
This is very delicate situation. As an avid Christian and member of the Catholic church, I strongly oppose abortion. However, I land somewhere near the upper middle when it comes to birth control. I do see both sides to the coin where birth control is concerned but my Christian heart leans a bit towards the Pope in this matter. No child is born without the blessing of God. However, wow….there are just such horror stories also. We must also consider that the church and state should be separate entities and should not influence one or the other. You bring up a stimulating and thought provoking dilemma. It is a problem that is not easily settled. You're a wonderful writer Samantha. Thank you. 🙂
Hilda
I think that's it's extremely important to have birth control and health education out there for woman. Women have the rights to decide what they want to do with their bodies, therefore even the high and mighty catholic church don't have the say. Abortion is viewed negatively, but is necessary to prevent neglect and abuse of a future child. Basically, one should bring a child to the world if they are ready to and want to, not because they accidentally got knocked up during prom night 🙂
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Samantha Bangayan
Hilda, it's so interesting to hear the opinion of a med student! =) I knew you would have insightful thoughts on this argument!
I really love the idea of women having the right to decide about their health and their bodies on all fronts. It sounds like you would be a fabulous and understanding doctor, ready to promote healthy living! =) Thanks so much for your opinion, Hilda! =)
Rowena Bolo
Hey Sam,
Although you mentioned Philippines in your post, the state versus the church is really a topic which I don't care to get into a debate about. I was reading all the comments here, and I wholeheartedly respect the opinions of Oliver, Janet and Adrienne. It is always about the individual's choice, and a never-ending debate between politics and religion can only lead to more confusion.
You can guess that I have nothing else to voice out here. Controversial subject which only talented writers like you can wonderfully write about. I enjoyed reading the comments too. Thanks Sam for this really stimulating post.
– Rowena
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Samantha Bangayan
So true, Rowena! It sounds like the debate over the RH bill in the Philippines has, in some ways, turned into a confusing mess! There are always going to be arguments for and against the situation and I like your underlying point about respecting the individual's choice.
Thank you so much for your kind words about my writing and for taking the time to comment! =) Hugs to you, Rowena!
Samantha Bangayan
What a powerful line, Stacy! Your first line really summed up a lot of what I've been learning through the comments on this post. It's so true — the Catholic Church can minister to its flock, but non-believers will have a very hard time staying in check.
Thanks so much for the concise summary, friend! =)
gjsuap
Samantha:
I think Catholic Church is a very important and traditional institution. It has been here and permanently by near 2,000 years. And it had a very strong moral sense.
As "mother and teacher" (madre y maestra) it had a very important role as moral conductor and leader to its members.
BUT not everyone is his follower, even in societies like Peru or Mexico, and the State had an obligation over everyone, not just catholics.
A good catholic will follow Pope's teachings and practicing abstinence. But for the bad catholics and for everyone else, a public policy on sexual healt MUST be carried on.
Saludos,
Gonzalo.
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Samantha Bangayan
Thanks for teaching me that phrase, Gonzalo: "madre y maestra" and thank you so much for providing your opinion to this piece. With the Catholic Church being a mainstay in Mexico as well, I was so curious about your thoughts on this one! =)
It's so true that not every in society would consider them Catholic, even though it's a dominant religion. Haha! I also love how you include the "bad Catholics" in your stipulation. Great distinction and conclusions!
Jane | Find All Answers
Ah, that’s a hot topic indeed. My take is that, the government or the Church, both of them can’t force people to make decisions when it comes to reproductive health. Of course, there can be laws, that are for the wellness of the people and the Church can have its opinion. But the decision is people’s, of course.
Cheers,
Jane.
Samantha Bangayan
I love how you sum it up so concisely, Jane! People ultimately should be able to make their own choices even though everyone (including the State and the Church) can have their opinions! Thanks for your input, friend! =)
Nikki
Actually, even if the constitution calls for separation of church and state here in the philippines, the reproductive health bill here has been a big debate for about 3 years now!! Hahaha.. Separation of church and state here hasnt been felt at all. I guess culture plays a big part.
Samantha Bangayan
Definitely so! Considering how the State was able to separate itself from the Church in Peru, I wonder what it would be like if the government could overpower like that in the Philippines! =P
Dayle Fraschilla
I am a huge, HUGE believer in reproductive health care. I can be a bit outspoken on this issue (among others). I cannot for the life of me understand the opposition. I can understand that thousands of years ago (when the Bible was written), they would have opposed birth control. They were trying to grow the population back then. How many babies died at birth or shortly thereafter? How many mothers died in childbirth? Look at the average life-span. It just made sense to have as many kids as possible.
That’s not the case anymore. We are killing ourselves and our planet with overpopulation. I do not agree with China’s restriction on how many children a family can have. But I do very strongly agree with making birth control available and affordable . . . AND education readily available. Teach abstinence all you like, but we’re human and we will give in to human desires.
Samantha Bangayan
Love your arguments, Dayle! It sure seems like the opposition is based on religion and the interpretation of the Bible. There seem to be so many “rules” in the Bible that seem irrelevant today but that many people still take near literally.
I especially agree with you on the value of education. We all should have the right to be well informed and make decisions for ourselves!