The “Vancouver Effect” v. Huancayo: What Justifies Violence?
I was raised in Vancouver, Canada…where the riots happened on June 15th, 2011 after the Vancouver Canucks lost the Stanley Cup final. I want to follow up with: “…but my city isn’t really like that.” And it isn’t.
So what happened?
They’re calling it the “Vancouver effect”: out of 200 sports riots, we’re the only city that riots after losing a game rather than winning it.
The result was this:
Over this past month, we’ve seen similar violent disturbances erupt in Huancayo between students from the local university and the police. The students from the Universidad Nacional del Centro del Perú (UNCP; The National University of Central Peru) organized marches and locked down the university to expose the corruption within different faculties and particularly of the Head Dean, Carlos Adauto Justo.
Unlike in Vancouver, the students in Huancayo didn’t loot any stores or take celebratory pictures in front of the destruction.
The major difference between the two scenarios is in the purpose behind the violence. The students have made the purpose of their strike clear. Violence is a byproduct, a reaction to police aggression upon the Dean’s command to “bring order” (link in Spanish).
In your opinion, what’s worth physically fighting for or becoming violent for? What would justify violence for you?
Tags: carlos adauto justo, huancayo violence, stanley cup riot, students in huancayo, uncp corrupción, uncp estudiantes, uncp huancayo, uncp students, vancouver canucks, vancouver effect, vancouver riot 2011, vancouver violence
RobertaBudvietas
In Vancouver how much was alcohol and drugs driven. It seems when either or both of these are present – sanity deserts the participants.
Samantha Bangayan
Drugs I'm not so sure, but alcohol definitely played a role! Good point about alcohol erasing sanity, Roberta!
Diana Simon
Hi Sam,
I think that violence can only be justified if your personal safety is threaten. That is what comes up when asked that question. However, the violence in both cases that you have shared, in my opinion, are unjustified even if the students have a clear purpose for the strike.
Earlier this year, there was also a clash between student protesters and the police in Italy. What happened was that some well-known violent group decided to take advantage of the situation and participated in these protests. It was ugly, unreal and very unnecessary.
Thanks Sam for this post – your posts are always eye-openers for me 🙂
Hugs,
Diana
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Samantha Bangayan
It's so true, Diana! Some people may consider violence in strikes worthwhile and necessary to make their point, but I really respect your opinion. It's especially scary when groups that are known to be violent take advantage of mass situations.
Thanks so much for sharing your opinion on this, friend! =) You always enlighten me too! =)
Steph Shum
Hm..I would want to think that many people believe or have the morals to think that violence should never be justifiable. But I guess in reality, it's not quite possible.. Like Diana mentioned, if your personal safety is in jeopardy, it's not much of a decision between your morals or your personal health/safety.
In terms of the riots, there's been tons of comparison between how "Vancouverites" acted in comparison to other countries did in despair. For the students in Peru, I guess it came down to a matter of do you do whatever it takes to stand up for what you believe in (even if it means sacrificing other morals/beliefs). In comparison to Vancouver, I'm sure if even half of the people had thought twice about the sacrifices they would have to make, the outcome would have been a lot less severe (although I must say the city really came together in trying to fix the big mess!)
Great post as always! =)
gjsuap
As you comment in my blog, some violence between police and students are "natural" part of Latin American Universities for… maybe 45 years or more. Maybe because there were a lot of Marxism and Revolutionary vision in the campuses, or maybe -as a good friend said- because youth people are full of "dreams and smoke".
In Vancouver case, I see them full of rage, alcohol… and maybe -just maybe- something more, that in the mob mentality became unstoppable.
Saludos,
Gonzalo
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Amanda
You raise some good questions Sam. Violent behaviour seems to be increasing exponentially around the world but it is hard to determine what the drive behind this is. It seems a restlessness is moving amongst us all.
Amanda
Sherry Zander
You asked a lot of very good questions. Overall, I think emotion is the integral part of riots, that and the common denominator of a common enemy — one of the greatest bonds people can have — it is powerful, powerful enough to instigate a riot. It was THE factor Hitler used to create hatred against the Jews; although, many other nationalities were also persecuted.
AND people are lemmings.
Emotions culminate against a common enemy and people do things that they would not normally do.
Personally, I am a non-violent person. I definitely don't condone the Canuck's behavior. The U.S. has had its share of violent protests, though. The bulk of them were civil unrest and race-related. We're also seeing a swell of riots across the world — food riots in Latin America and anti-establishment riots in Greece, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen and other nations — all economy-related. The violence is not lessening, but gaining momentum.
The only time I can think of that I would become violent is if someone was in imminent threat of bodily harm. I would definitely use violence if it was the only solution.
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Samantha Bangayan
Ooh! You speak to a really interesting and scary point, Sherry! That's definitely what it seemed like in the videos — people feeling *bonded* by the violence. And how scary to compare our society to Hitler. We all like to think that his era is behind us, but the same kind of power of influence remains. =(
How frightening to think about how violence is increasing around the world. I hope we become more educated, more compassionate and less lemming-like as a society, so we can choose a better way!
Thanks for your detailed thoughts, Sherry!!
Lucy
Like Diana, I would only justify violence if my own or a loved one's safety was being threatened. Thought provoking post – as ever!
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Samantha Bangayan
Great point, Lucy! I wholeheartedly agree! In those cases, we may even react with violence as an automatic reaction!! Thanks so much for your thoughts, friend! =)
Adriene (Sweepy Jean)
It’s difficult to justify violence in any instance, particularly if you mean rioting, though there are more worthy causes than a hockey game, relatively speaking. But from my observation, rioting is a reaction that is not always directed at the object of anger and as such defeats the purpose.
Samantha Bangayan
That's such an interesting thought, Adriene! I can fully imagine how people used the Vancouver riot as a venue to release whatever angers and frustrations they had, even if they had nothing to do with the game! =S
Thanks for your insights, friend!!
Leanne Chesser
Personally, I don't think violence is justified in any situation. I love Victor Frankl's perspective in the midst of being in a concentration camp that we can choose our attitude in any circumstance . . . and he chose non-violence, compassion and learning. However, I do understand that we can also react with varying degrees of violence, and have done so myself. That doesn't mean it's justified, though.
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Samantha Bangayan
Wow! Viktol Frankl and his teachings are such a perfect example, Leanne! The concept of non-violence brings Gandhi to mind as well and I really like how you mention that even though we may react with violence automatically, it doesn't mean it's justified.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on this, friend!!
Lalia
Very interesting post Samantha. I wonder about a mob mentality. What happens to people who would normally not resort to violence that they end up following the pack? And how does a protest over a hockey game or football game or any sport for that matter then turn to looting? I really don't understand it at all.
Samantha Bangayan
Isn't it a scary thought?! It makes me wonder how you or I would react. We may *think* we'd react in one way to the mob mentality, but actually surprise ourselves by reacting in another way when actually in a situation like that!
And I totally share your sentiments about not understanding how a sports game could turn into looting, Lalia!!
Christopher Jones
Hi, Samantha.
Being a follower of the NHL, I think the unrest was spawned from sheer frustration. There was an expectation for Vancouver to win the Stanley Cup. They won the President's Trophy, an award given to the league's best overall team (record based) and they shook the curse of the President's Cup (most teams who win it fail to reach the Finals). Then there was the Montreal Canadiens, the last Canadian team to hoist the cup some 18 seasons ago in 1993. Now, pair all of those with the fact that Vancouver took a 2-0 series lead only to collapse three times on the road in Boston (giving up 17 goals) and to ice the cake, they lost the deciding game at home in a shut out. The behavior is certainly inexcusable, but when a mob of people share the same emotional trauma in a game they expected to win (the hadn't given up a game at home), the damage is certain.
Samantha Bangayan
Thanks so much for taking the time to share the history behind the loss, Chris! I had no dea that we had won the President's Trophy and what power to be able to shaake that curse! Isn't it true that we've *never* won the cup before?! That would add to the excitement, I'm sure! No wonder you can describe it as "an emotional trauma."
I really appreciate you taking the time to comment, Chris!! =)
Carolyn
Thank you, Christopher, for taking the time to offer an explanation for the move behavior in Vancouver. I think it's easy to judge the mob behavior (violence for losing a hockey game? No Way!), but it's even more important to understand why it happened to prevent the violence from occurring again in the future.
I don't believe anyone expected riots in Vancouver. But what happens next year if Vancouver gets to the Stanley Cup Finals again?
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Samantha Bangayan
That's definitely the scary part, Carolyn!
IveBecomeMyParents
What bothers me is that there are people in parts of he world protesting and even fighting for the most basic of rights while privileged Vancouverites rioted for nothing of any meaning. Vancouver is my home and I certainly would not describe what happened as typical Vancouver.
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Samantha Bangayan
Glad we agree that this isn't typical Vancouver behavior, Eric! It's so true that the riots seem just silly in comparison to rioting for basic rights!
Roy A. Ackerman, Ph.D., E.A.
There are VAST differences. (Caveat: I am NOT a fan of hockey.)
Given a sport that exults in violence and injury- with the sale of alcohol permitted to stoke the fires- it’s my guess that the fans thought they were “robbed” and thought the hockey rink was extended to the city…
Eviscerating one’s rights is a gut-wrenching event. While NOT sexual in the least, it is the realization that hurt, anger and fear are overwhelming one’s psyche. And, given the fact that one’s power has been completely removed, one could respond in a violent fashion- thinking it will restore one’s power (since one can wreak havoc on the “powered” class). Not condoning it, Just explaining it…
(Some radicals from the 60’s believed in non-violent responses; others- the few, but upon whom the media focused attention- did not… Been there, not done that…)
Samantha Bangayan
Ooh! You bring up a really good point about the violent nature of the game, Roy! Hockey is definitely one of the more violent North American sports out there, even with all the padding! I can completely picture what you describe about "the hockey rink extending to the city."
I also really like your analysis of the riot here in Huancayo. Humans can definitely react out of the norm when they feel that power has been taken away from them. Thanks so much for your insights on this, Roy, and glad to hear that you weren't "one of them" in the 60s or even now!
fullerjanette
I believe that the only time violence is justified is to defend oneself or loved ones.
Hockey is just a game. The loss of a game is just an excuse for unwise choices.
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Samantha Bangayan
What a powerful point, Janette! "Hockey is just a game" — this is something those Vancouverites definitely needed to be reminded of!!
penniej2
Sam, Very interesting post and question. Does anything justify violence? I suppose one could argue that in self-defense or in some cases of war though this often depends on which side you're on.
You make an amazing comparison between two completely different cities and cultures, both of which have suffered from violent disturbances recently. The difference is that one, in what I believe was recently named the No.1 safest city in the world, was a result of mob mentality. Probably a group instigated it and the Reptilian (or prehistoric) brain surfaced in others and overcame the veneer of civilization. In Huancayo, it's easier to understand given the Latin American emotional nature and the usual aggressive reaction to any demonstrations, however peaceful they are at the start.
But violence is violence. I cannot condone it nor can any thinking person, yet it continues to occur on an everyday basis to a smaller or larger degree, all over the world. Violence will never stop. It's ingrained in men's genes (not necessarily the more nurturing female ones though there are exceptions), in the blood lust inherited from their ancestors throughout history when violence was a way of life. We may be peaceful ourselves but we are surrounded by violence. Action films, video games, TV series, some kinds of sports. The most powerful arms dealers in the world, the gang members, the soccer/hockey hoodlums, the tyrannical dictators and their minions, the armies and police with their batons, guns and other weapons, the religious extremists, etc. all use or depend on violence.
There's no getting away from violence. Not fighting against it, working against it, praying for it to end. Nothing will stop it. Violence is part of human nature and will remain with us to the end of time.
I know that's a bleak outlook but just take a good look at what is going on in the world at the moment. It proves that civilization is only skin deep and violence is only one hockey game or one peaceful demonstration away.
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Samantha Bangayan
Wow! I really appreciate your thoughtful comments on my post, Pennie! You bring up an interesting point about the evolutionary nature of violence through our "Reptilian" brain (and especially or maybe more exclusively that of males).
It's true that violence is all around us. If we think back to hunting-gathering societies, it was the basis of survival, "a way of life" as you say. Maybe it's not about stopping violence completely, but about preventing unnecessary and purposeless violence whenever possible or even preventing violence from getting out of hand. In that sense, we don't have to carry a bleak outlook on the issue.
Thanks so much for thinking through this with me, Pennie!
Tambre Leighn
Very thought provoking stuff here. As a fellow Canadian, I get that hockey means something to a lot of people. But unless you're on the ice, hockey is a spectator sport. You're not truly a participant. You have no control over the outcome so rioting when the outcome is not what you wanted, yet nothing you had any real say in doesn't, in my mind, add up.
I walked through the marching crowds of 100,000 Maoists in Kathmandu during the uprising in 2006. Though their survival was at stake and while they did commandeer buses, hotel rooms and turn the heart of Kathmandu into a massive rally, they never took to rioting. They used their march to let the King know they had reached their limit with seeing him live in luxury as they struggled meal to meal to feed themselves and their children.
It is, therefore, difficult for me to understand why residents of Vancouver would turn on their own city in such a violent and destructive manner over the outcome of a game where grown men chase a black piece of rubber on ice with sticks.
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Samantha Bangayan
Tambre, I feel you on hockey being important to our country, but I wholeheartedly agree that it doesn't seem to make sense rioting for something that can't be changed or controlled. It's especially perplexing to me because I can't think of any other violent outbursts like it in Vancouver!
Your experience of the Kathmandu march is the perfect example of rioting for a purpose without the need for violence! Thank you for sharing that! It makes me think that this is where nurture comes into play — if we grow up in an atmosphere of violence, violence may be our automatic reaction and we justify it by saying that there was no other way… but maybe there always *IS* another way! We just don't bother thinking about it.
Thanks so much for reflecting on this with me, Tambre!
Joy
I remember in Sociology there is what's called contagion theory (where group members or mobs just get the 'fever' and follow whatever the others are doing). This is a sad situation obviously because it just becomes senseless. Hopefully this wasn't the case in Vancouver although I really don't know and don't know much about it. I haven't thought much about your question and it's a tough one to answer. I think for someone who did not grow up with violence or was not socialized to believe in it nor advocate for it, this would be a very difficult thing to ponder on. I've joined rallies before but fortunately they were all peaceful ones. Thanks for making me think, Samantha….again….hahaha…..
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Samantha Bangayan
Thanks for reminding me about contagion theory, Joy! That brings up the contrast with convergence theory where people who have the same goal or want to act in a certain way come together. And this could partly explain the Vancouver riot too because some are saying that some parts of the violence was planned by the same people who protested the Winter Olympics.
Joy, I also grew up in a non-violent home and environment, which is why the entire riot is so baffling to me. I never felt that my neighborhood OR Vancouver were unsafe or violent places!
Love making you think, friend! Haha! =) Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!!
Hajra
The comments are interesting and engaging as the post. Violence is never justified, never. Unless, of course it is for self defense. Sports might mean a lot; I have seen people in my country go violent over a game of Cricket; but I cannot be a supporter to such a behavior. No amount of disagreement seeks justice by beating up each other, by destroying property or by violence of any kind.
Like the admirable Bapu (Gandhiji – we Indians, affectionately call him Bapu – Father!) said "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind."
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Samantha Bangayan
Wow! Violence over cricket is a new one to me! =P
I really respect your thoughts on how violence is never justified (aside from self-defense). A lot of people get carried away, using violence as their only means of handling disagreements because they don't bother realizing and thinking that there's another way!
Love that quote from Bapu and is the perfect way to sum up your thoughts and mine!! =) Thanks, Hajra!! =)
charlie nitric
Hi Samantha –
I would have to say that nasty events like what happened in Vancouver and also in Huancayo are snowball effects. Like dominoes, one thing leads to another. This is largely the result of a very small, select group of people where masses join in without thinking. They are merely doing what 90% of the world is doing in all aspects of life. They are following and not thinking for them selves. Sad, but true.
Samantha Bangayan
Great way to put it, Charlie — "snowball effects"! It makes complete sense because I heard that there may have been an organized group looking for trouble who were the same people that protested the Winter Olympics there. They may have psyched up the crowds. =(
Thanks for your thoughts on this, friend!
Jen Puckett
Wow, girl!! You did it again!! Asked a super meaningful question that makes me think!! The first thing that came to my mind was defending my family! I think that would stir up some toughness in me. I have never been in any kind of situation like that though and hope I never am. Violence is not the answer! I'm more of a Peace, Love, Rock and Roll type of gal! 🙂
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Samantha Bangayan
Same here, Jen! That would be the worst case scenario, but I also hope to never find myself in that kind of situation. Thanks for your sharing your peace-loving self and bringing good vibes to my blog, friend!! =) Rock on!
Justin | Mazzastick
HI Samantha,
Physical violence should be a last resort when all other means have been exhausted.
The riots in Vancouver were a result of drunk idiots. It happens but I don't get the looting of stores and or hurting people.
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Samantha Bangayan
It makes so much more sense when we consider the role alcohol played, Justin — so true! But you're also right that violence still cannot be justified and maybe even explained!
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this, friend!
Samantha Bangayan
I really respect your opinion and thank you so much for taking the time to share it, Tisha! When we think of Gandhi's peaceful protests, how can we condone violent protesting here in Huancayo, even if it's for a "worthy" cause?
I was also really saddened to see the video footage of the Vancouver riot. =( It's why I'll keep on saying (at least to myself), "my city isn't really like that!"
Samantha Bangayan
I knew you were a peaceful one, Abe! =) It's true that violence made no difference to the outcome of the game. Since it's not clear that the Vancouver rioters were trying to achieve anything at all, I wonder if they went home (or to prison) feeling even more dejected!
Carolyn
Of course you riot violently if you lose a hockey game, hockey rules! Okay, I wasn't serious, I'm just trying to think of any possible justification for a violent riot in response to losing a hockey game (even the Stanley Cup). Of course there isn't any, but your question of what you would be violent for is a fascinating one.
Intellectually, the Ghandi approach is admirable, but there are circumstances where protests are justified, such as human rights violations, unjust governments, etc. When I see the brave protesters in the Middle East rallying against despotism, I admire their courage. Contrast that with pre-War Nazi Germany where citizens accepted their government's edicts without protests.
Today citizens of Greece are protesting austerity measures that are necessary to avoid government default on loans. There don't seem to be many alternatives and the protesters aren't offering any.
Thank you so much, Samantha, for your thought-provoking and timely post. 🙂
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Samantha Bangayan
You bring up something for us to ponder, Carolyn! Those are true cases when "the Ghandi approach" may not be enough, especially if the government takes violent measures. Otherwise, we turn into passive vegetables who get beat upon and live in an unjust world.
Thanks so much for adding your insights on this, Carolyn, and for getting me to think more about this! =)
Jim
Protecting my love ones, myself, a stranger and my country. All this other stuff following sports is due to alcohol and immaturity ( not age related) I am guessing the people who rioted were never very good in the sport that preceded the rioting
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Samantha Bangayan
Wow! I love how you identify with much more than your immediate circle, Jim! The feeling of protecting your country is a lot stronger here in Latin America than I've ever seen in Canada! =)
Thanks so much for sharing your opinion and for your friendship! =) I've followed back and look forward to checking out some beautiful shots! =)
Deeone
Awesome post, Samantha. There are things that would probably cause me to anger quickly, but in my opinion violence is rarely ever the answer. Many choose it as an answer, but I can't really think of one case in history and/or present, where violence was the only way out of a situation. There's always another way out.
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Samantha Bangayan
Great point, Deeone! Anger doesn't need to be tied to violence. What a powerful message that "there's always another way out." Wise words, friend! =)
Nyxzie
I am a pacifist by nature. There is very little that I believe is worth violence. I think the only thing that would make me resort to that would be to defend myself or my family from a physical attack.
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Samantha Bangayan
Defense definitely sounds like a situation in which I may resort to violence as well. Great point, Dayle!